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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Why is updating the IP address section a pre-requisite? As much as I’d love to get the “remove any other method for IP” ballot passed, I don’t think there is a need for a strict ordering.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>-Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Doug Beattie <doug.beattie@globalsign.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 14, 2018 7:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Wayne Thayer <wthayer@mozilla.com>; CA/Browser Forum Validation WG List <validation@cabforum.org>; Tim Hollebeek <tim.hollebeek@digicert.com><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [cabf_validation] [EXTERNAL]Re: Ballot Proposal: Validation Method in certificatePolicies<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi Wayne,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I have a couple of comments/suggestions:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Did we agree to change the effective date to a bit later than April?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>On the numbering scheme, certainly 500 is high enough that we won’t see a collision any time soon, but it might be easier to mentally map the IP address numbers if they started at 1000 (just a minor suggestion). Also we’ll need to be sure we update IP address validation section before this ballot goes into effect – do we need to point out this dependency?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>You used the construct Sequence vs. Set, so there is an implied meaning to the order of the integers, but I think they are randomly “sequenced”. Maybe Set is better in this case unless we want them ordered for some reason? It’s not a big deal because RFC 5280 uses sequence for things like EKU where the order isn’t important also.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Neither Set nor Sequence precludes duplicate values, so the statement “..assert every distinct method” isn’t enforced via the ASN structure. I don’t think there is an easy way (nor necessarily a strong requirement) to enforce this at the encoding level – just pointing it out in case someone has an idea or opinion about that. However, this random article says that “the entries of a set usually are assumed to be unique, no two identical entries in a set, while a sequence may contain many identical entries”, which further suggests we should use set for our purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="https://stackoverflow.com/questions/31442003/asn1-sequence-vs-set">https://stackoverflow.com/questions/31442003/asn1-sequence-vs-set</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Doug<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Validation <<a href="mailto:validation-bounces@cabforum.org">validation-bounces@cabforum.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Wayne Thayer via Validation<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 13, 2018 7:06 PM<br><b>To:</b> Tim Hollebeek <<a href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> CA/Browser Forum Validation WG List <<a href="mailto:validation@cabforum.org">validation@cabforum.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabf_validation] [EXTERNAL]Re: Ballot Proposal: Validation Method in certificatePolicies<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Here's an updated proposal using numbers instead of OIDs to represent the validation methods:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://github.com/cabforum/documents/compare/master...wthayer:Ballot226#diff-7f6d14a20e7f3beb696b45e1bf8196f2">https://github.com/cabforum/documents/compare/master...wthayer:Ballot226#diff-7f6d14a20e7f3beb696b45e1bf8196f2</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Please review and comment.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- Wayne<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 8:10 PM Tim Hollebeek <<a href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think this might be the best of both worlds, and I thank Wayne for proposing it.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-Tim<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Wayne Thayer <<a href="mailto:wthayer@mozilla.com" target="_blank">wthayer@mozilla.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 9, 2018 1:54 PM<br><b>To:</b> Ryan Sleevi <<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com" target="_blank">sleevi@google.com</a>>; CA/Browser Forum Validation WG List <<a href="mailto:validation@cabforum.org" target="_blank">validation@cabforum.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Tim Hollebeek <<a href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com" target="_blank">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabf_validation] [EXTERNAL]Re: Ballot Proposal: Validation Method in certificatePolicies<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Redirecting this discussion back to my proposal...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I understand Tim's position to be that CAs should have the choice of encoding this data as relative OIDs, even if it is difficult for the CA to do that and causes all sorts of compatibility issues in client software. For certificate consumers that value size above all else, the benefits may outweigh the risks.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think this approach builds a footgun into the BRs because the odds are high that some CAs will get it wrong (encode relative OID as OID --> misissuance) and some clients will fail to parse data that is properly encoded as a relative OID.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>What are the objections to encoding the validation method number(s) as a sequence of integers? This at least results in a smaller certificate that is unlikely to cause compatibility problems. I would, of course, propose a mechanism for expressing IP Address validation methods uniquely.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 11:10 AM Ryan Sleevi via Validation <<a href="mailto:validation@cabforum.org" target="_blank">validation@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></body></html>