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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I would change “and” to “or”, and send it out ASAP. That way anyone who completes any of the steps before July 3<sup>rd</sup> is still a CABF member, and is now a SC WG member, simply by responding on the public list or editing the wiki. We can fix up all three lists to be consistent once the ticking time bomb is off the table.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Remember, we want this to be as easy as possible to avoid losing members. Otherwise we have to deal with members rejoining, which would be a hassle. Do you really want to have a discussion about whether Comodo’s browser application is order, when they are (hypothetically) force to re-apply? Do you want to force 25 CAs to put together and submit membership applications, and then have to inspect and approve them, because they didn’t dot the I’s and cross the T’s in time to have “declared”, and get dropped from CABF on a technicality?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Remember that our bylaws allow people to challenge a CABF membership at any time. The fact that the SC WG membership rules are just the CABF membership rules (mostly) means that in my mind, there should be a presumption of validity of all SC WG declarations by current CABF members. In fact we can take the time bomb off the table by declaring that CABF members have (e.g.) 60 days to declare they are joining the SC WG by one of the approved methods, and the presumption is that the membership application is valid based on legacy CABF membership. Sounds like a good and painless process to me so we can get back to real work.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>People can use the bylaws to challenge SC WG membership after the fact if they believe circumstances have changed. I strongly disagree that we need to have an unnecessary round of inspections of member qualifications, or further delays in the functioning of the forum beyond July 3<sup>rd</sup>. What are we trying to accomplish with those steps?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-Tim<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Ben Wilson <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 28, 2018 4:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> Tim Hollebeek <tim.hollebeek@digicert.com>; Kirk Hall <Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com>; CA/Browser Forum Governance WG List <govreform@cabforum.org><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [cabf_governance] Draft email on new Server Certificate Working Group for editing<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>We need to have Server Certificate Working Group members or DigiCert and Entrust will be the only CABF members on July 3 . I think that we need to send out an email telling people how they become members of the Working Group. The Bylaws state, “[they must] have formally declared their participation in the CWG via the mechanism designated by the Forum prior to attending.”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>But has the Forum designated the mechanism?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I was thinking members should be required to:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle style='margin-bottom:8.0pt;mso-add-space:auto;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>email the public list (or alternatively email the WG chair and vice-chair) and formally declare their participation in the Server Certificate Working Group;<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle style='margin-bottom:8.0pt;mso-add-space:auto;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>subscribe to the mailing list - <a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/servercert-wg</a>; and <o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle style='margin-bottom:8.0pt;mso-add-space:auto;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>list their names here <a href="https://cabforum.org/wiki/Server%20Certificate%20Working%20Group">https://cabforum.org/wiki/Server%20Certificate%20Working%20Group</a> as follows: <o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The following have formally declared their participation in the Server Certificate Working Group: <o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=5 cellpadding=0 style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt'><tr><td style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Name <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Date of Declaration <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Date of Withdrawal <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Digicert, Inc. <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>28 June 2018 <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thoughts? Should I send this to the Management list and then follow up by sending this to the Public list?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Ben<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tim Hollebeek <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:01 AM<br><b>To:</b> Kirk Hall <<a href="mailto:Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com">Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com</a>>; CA/Browser Forum Governance WG List <<a href="mailto:govreform@cabforum.org">govreform@cabforum.org</a>>; Ben Wilson <<a href="mailto:ben.wilson@digicert.com">ben.wilson@digicert.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [cabf_governance] Draft email on new Server Certificate Working Group for editing<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>This is the point I raised at the end of the call. I think we may need to wait until July 3 to start transition actions, just so that it is clear that the new bylaws are in effect.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>However this does not prevent us from discussing what those actions are in advance, so that we can proceed rapidly with them at the appropriate time. This could include having a draft ballot of the election procedures that could be submitted as SCWG Ballot 1.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-Tim<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:5.4pt'>I agree that the SCWG itself exists now, and you and I are Vice Chair and Chair, but we have no enumerated powers to start anything until July 3 – so maybe we rephrase the message that way, and again do nothing until July 3.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>