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    Just to clarify, ACAB-c is comprised of Accredited CABs only, not
    TSPs.<br>
    <br>
    Dimitris.<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/6/2018 9:19 μμ, Virginia Fournier
      via Govreform wrote:<br>
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      <span style="-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
        -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Hi Ryan,</span>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Would you please also summarize the ETSI issue you
        raised on the call today?  I’m not sure whether you were
        objecting to the discussion of the issue on today’s call, the
        MOU previously signed with ETSI, not discussing the issue
        directly with ETSI, having ETSI sign the IPR agreement, or
        something else.  Is it just what you’ve mentioned below?  I’d
        appreciate your summary so the Governance Reform WG can
        determine how to address it.  Thank you. 
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                        <div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
                          line-height: normal;" class="">Best regards,</div>
                        <div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
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                          class=""><br class="">
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                        <div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
                          line-height: normal;" class="">Virginia
                          Fournier</div>
                        <div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
                          line-height: normal;" class="">Senior
                          Standards Counsel</div>
                        <div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
                          line-height: normal;" class=""><span
                            style="color: rgb(113, 113, 113);" class=""></span> Apple
                          Inc.</div>
                        <div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
                          line-height: normal;" class=""><span
                            style="font-stretch: normal; line-height:
                            normal; font-family: "Apple SD Gothic
                            Neo";" class="">☏</span><span
                            class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>669-227-9595</div>
                        <div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
                          line-height: normal; color: rgb(4, 51, 255);"
                          class=""><span style="font-stretch: normal;
                            line-height: normal; font-family: "Zapf
                            Dingbats"; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
                            class="">✉︎</span><span style="color: rgb(0,
                            0, 0);" class=""> <a
                              href="mailto:vmf@apple.com" class=""
                              moz-do-not-send="true">vmf@apple.com</a></span></div>
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        <div><br class="">
          <div class="">On Jun 14, 2018, at 9:11 AM, Ryan Sleevi via
            Govreform <<a href="mailto:govreform@cabforum.org"
              class="" moz-do-not-send="true">govreform@cabforum.org</a>>
            wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div class="">
            <div dir="ltr" class="">(I'm not sure if I have posting
              rights on govreform, so this may only go to the named
              parties)
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Thanks for this summary Ben. To capture the
                other part of the F2F discussion and this and the
                previous call, it sounds like there's two
                separate-but-highly-related challenges.<br class="">
              </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">First is confusion about who must sign the
                IPR, whether participating as an Interested Party, an
                Associate Member, or a full Forum member. Examples of
                this confusion have manifest in several discussions, in
                which some members expressed confusion as to how to best
                handle it, such as:</div>
              <div class="">- For interested parties, whether an
                individual signature is sufficient or whether that
                individuals employer(s) must also sign</div>
              <div class="">- For associate members, the process for
                waiving the IPR agreement, as covered in Section 3.1 of
                the Bylaws</div>
              <div class="">- For associate members, how to handle
                various industry groups, such as:</div>
              <div class="">  - CPA Canada's WebTrust TF, which is
                comprised of volunteers from firms such as KPMG,
                Deloitte, and BDO, but also has representatives from CPA
                Canada itself</div>
              <div class="">  - ACAB-c, which has a number of European
                conformance assessment bodies (auditors) and European
                CAs (which themselves may be members of the Forum)</div>
              <div class="">  - ETSI, which is comprised of Member
                Organizations that may meet any of our other
                definitions, and which may have individuals that are
                employed by ETSI member organizations, but are not
                representing their Member Organization</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Second, there is confusion about the nature
                and scope of participation in CA/Browser Forum calls and
                F2Fs. This confusion roughly follows the examples
                illustrated above, but to more firmly document.</div>
              <div class="">  - WebTrust is administered by CPA Canada,
                and thus we'd expect CPA Canada employees and
                consultants to be able to participate (e.g. Don Sheehy,
                Gord Beal). However, the Task Force is made up of
                volunteers from auditing firms, and whether or not the
                recognition of AM also extends to those members and
                their employees. Jeff Ward, as Chair of the TF, while
                employed by BDO, has been a steady participant in Forum
                F2F, but whether this invitation extends to the entire
                TF, or their member organizations, was a point of
                confusion.</div>
              <div class="">  - ACAB-c is an organization made up of
                many European TSPs and CABs. Does recognition of ACAB-c
                as an Associate Member extend invitations to all of
                these organizations, and their employees, to also
                participate in the F2F</div>
              <div class="">  - ETSI, as a member organization, is made
                up of a large number of members. Does invitation only
                extend to those employeed directly by ETSI, or does it
                also include those who participate in or lead the
                various focus groups within ETSI?</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Note that there was a separate discussion on
                that second point related to Members (such as whether
                any employee of an organization can be in charge of
                voting or participate in Forum F2F, or whether there
                should be a notion of designated representatives), but
                that's not nearly as urgent or pressing as these above
                matters are.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">My hope is that through discussion in the
                Governance Reform WG and telecons, there can be a
                mutually agreed upon and documented understanding as to:</div>
              <div class="">- A common understanding of the 'complex'
                cases (the above may be woefully insufficient)</div>
              <div class="">- Who signs the IPR Agreements for these
                complex cases</div>
              <div class="">- What concerns, if any, exist with those
                guidelines by the member organizations (e.g. concerns of
                Proviti / US Government, or of ETSI and its members)</div>
              <div class="">- Agreement on the process and procedures
                for any exceptions that might be granted under the
                Bylaws Section 3.1, such as:</div>
              <div class="">  - The chair decides</div>
              <div class="">  - Assent on a meeting (F2F or telecon),
                the same as done for members that meet the requirements</div>
              <div class="">  - Full Forum votes</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Hopefully that accurately and appropriately
                captures the discussions to date, in order to frame
                possible work items.</div>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 11:46 AM,
                Ben Wilson <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a
                    href="mailto:ben.wilson@digicert.com"
                    target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ben.wilson@digicert.com</a>></span>
                wrote:<br class="">
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                  <div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" class=""
                    lang="EN-US">
                    <div class="m_912791612569078699WordSection1">
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Group,</p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">An issue from the London
                        face-to-face meeting resurfaced today on the
                        CABF call.  That is, who must sign the IPR
                        agreement?  I believe that many members of the
                        CABF would like a recommendation from this
                        working group.</p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">I think it has been pretty
                        clear, at least in practice, that someone with
                        authority for an organization that is a member
                        must sign the IPR agreement.  For Interested
                        Parties who are individuals, their signature on
                        the IPR Agreement is pretty straightforward. 
                        But things get a little fuzzy when we deal with
                        other scenarios.  The most unclear situation is
                        when we are dealing with associations of other
                        organizations and individuals – viz. ETSI and
                        WebTrust who send representatives to  our
                        meetings.  Another example is where an entity
                        appoints another entity as its agent (recognized
                        representative) for discussions/votes.  For this
                        latter situation, a side issue is what should we
                        require as evidence of the agency relationship.</p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<span class="HOEnZb"></span></p>
                      <span class="HOEnZb"><font class=""
                          color="#888888">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Ben</p>
                        </font></span></div>
                  </div>
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              <br class="">
            </div>
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