<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Just to clarify, ACAB-c is comprised of Accredited CABs only, not
TSPs.<br>
<br>
Dimitris.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/6/2018 9:19 μμ, Virginia Fournier
via Govreform wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:D26FAA9E-3E9B-4753-A24B-A8DDB7FABA1E@apple.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<span style="-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Hi Ryan,</span>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Would you please also summarize the ETSI issue you
raised on the call today? I’m not sure whether you were
objecting to the discussion of the issue on today’s call, the
MOU previously signed with ETSI, not discussing the issue
directly with ETSI, having ETSI sign the IPR agreement, or
something else. Is it just what you’ve mentioned below? I’d
appreciate your summary so the Governance Reform WG can
determine how to address it. Thank you.
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"
class="">
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"
class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric:
normal; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family:
Helvetica; line-height: normal;">
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px;
line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width:
initial;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal;" class="">Best regards,</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal; min-height: 17px;"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal;" class="">Virginia
Fournier</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal;" class="">Senior
Standards Counsel</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal;" class=""><span
style="color: rgb(113, 113, 113);" class=""></span> Apple
Inc.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal;" class=""><span
style="font-stretch: normal; line-height:
normal; font-family: "Apple SD Gothic
Neo";" class="">☏</span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>669-227-9595</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal; color: rgb(4, 51, 255);"
class=""><span style="font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal; font-family: "Zapf
Dingbats"; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
class="">✉︎</span><span style="color: rgb(0,
0, 0);" class=""> <a
href="mailto:vmf@apple.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">vmf@apple.com</a></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal; color: rgb(87, 157, 255);
min-height: 17px;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br class="">
<div class="">On Jun 14, 2018, at 9:11 AM, Ryan Sleevi via
Govreform <<a href="mailto:govreform@cabforum.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">govreform@cabforum.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">(I'm not sure if I have posting
rights on govreform, so this may only go to the named
parties)
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks for this summary Ben. To capture the
other part of the F2F discussion and this and the
previous call, it sounds like there's two
separate-but-highly-related challenges.<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">First is confusion about who must sign the
IPR, whether participating as an Interested Party, an
Associate Member, or a full Forum member. Examples of
this confusion have manifest in several discussions, in
which some members expressed confusion as to how to best
handle it, such as:</div>
<div class="">- For interested parties, whether an
individual signature is sufficient or whether that
individuals employer(s) must also sign</div>
<div class="">- For associate members, the process for
waiving the IPR agreement, as covered in Section 3.1 of
the Bylaws</div>
<div class="">- For associate members, how to handle
various industry groups, such as:</div>
<div class=""> - CPA Canada's WebTrust TF, which is
comprised of volunteers from firms such as KPMG,
Deloitte, and BDO, but also has representatives from CPA
Canada itself</div>
<div class=""> - ACAB-c, which has a number of European
conformance assessment bodies (auditors) and European
CAs (which themselves may be members of the Forum)</div>
<div class=""> - ETSI, which is comprised of Member
Organizations that may meet any of our other
definitions, and which may have individuals that are
employed by ETSI member organizations, but are not
representing their Member Organization</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Second, there is confusion about the nature
and scope of participation in CA/Browser Forum calls and
F2Fs. This confusion roughly follows the examples
illustrated above, but to more firmly document.</div>
<div class=""> - WebTrust is administered by CPA Canada,
and thus we'd expect CPA Canada employees and
consultants to be able to participate (e.g. Don Sheehy,
Gord Beal). However, the Task Force is made up of
volunteers from auditing firms, and whether or not the
recognition of AM also extends to those members and
their employees. Jeff Ward, as Chair of the TF, while
employed by BDO, has been a steady participant in Forum
F2F, but whether this invitation extends to the entire
TF, or their member organizations, was a point of
confusion.</div>
<div class=""> - ACAB-c is an organization made up of
many European TSPs and CABs. Does recognition of ACAB-c
as an Associate Member extend invitations to all of
these organizations, and their employees, to also
participate in the F2F</div>
<div class=""> - ETSI, as a member organization, is made
up of a large number of members. Does invitation only
extend to those employeed directly by ETSI, or does it
also include those who participate in or lead the
various focus groups within ETSI?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Note that there was a separate discussion on
that second point related to Members (such as whether
any employee of an organization can be in charge of
voting or participate in Forum F2F, or whether there
should be a notion of designated representatives), but
that's not nearly as urgent or pressing as these above
matters are.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">My hope is that through discussion in the
Governance Reform WG and telecons, there can be a
mutually agreed upon and documented understanding as to:</div>
<div class="">- A common understanding of the 'complex'
cases (the above may be woefully insufficient)</div>
<div class="">- Who signs the IPR Agreements for these
complex cases</div>
<div class="">- What concerns, if any, exist with those
guidelines by the member organizations (e.g. concerns of
Proviti / US Government, or of ETSI and its members)</div>
<div class="">- Agreement on the process and procedures
for any exceptions that might be granted under the
Bylaws Section 3.1, such as:</div>
<div class=""> - The chair decides</div>
<div class=""> - Assent on a meeting (F2F or telecon),
the same as done for members that meet the requirements</div>
<div class=""> - Full Forum votes</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Hopefully that accurately and appropriately
captures the discussions to date, in order to frame
possible work items.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 11:46 AM,
Ben Wilson <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a
href="mailto:ben.wilson@digicert.com"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ben.wilson@digicert.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" class=""
lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_912791612569078699WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Group,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">An issue from the London
face-to-face meeting resurfaced today on the
CABF call. That is, who must sign the IPR
agreement? I believe that many members of the
CABF would like a recommendation from this
working group.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think it has been pretty
clear, at least in practice, that someone with
authority for an organization that is a member
must sign the IPR agreement. For Interested
Parties who are individuals, their signature on
the IPR Agreement is pretty straightforward.
But things get a little fuzzy when we deal with
other scenarios. The most unclear situation is
when we are dealing with associations of other
organizations and individuals – viz. ETSI and
WebTrust who send representatives to our
meetings. Another example is where an entity
appoints another entity as its agent (recognized
representative) for discussions/votes. For this
latter situation, a side issue is what should we
require as evidence of the agency relationship.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<span class="HOEnZb"></span></p>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font class=""
color="#888888">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ben</p>
</font></span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
Govreform mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:Govreform@cabforum.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">Govreform@cabforum.org</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/govreform">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/govreform</a><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
<!--'"--><br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Govreform mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Govreform@cabforum.org">Govreform@cabforum.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/govreform">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/govreform</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>