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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>That seems like a reasonable provision, especially since we try hard not to change it frequently. Do you think it would be OK to submit one ballot that would renew waivers for all existing Associates, or would it be better to do separate ballots for each AM?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'>-- <br>Jos Purvis (jopurvis@cisco.com)<br>.:|:.:|:. cisco systems | Cryptographic Services<br>PGP: 0xFD802FEE07D19105 | +1 919.991.9114 (desk)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Ryan Sleevi <sleevi@google.com><br><b>Date: </b>Thursday, 14 June, 2018 at 15:46 <br><b>To: </b>"Jos Purvis (jopurvis)" <jopurvis@cisco.com><br><b>Cc: </b>Virginia Fournier <vfournier@apple.com>, CA/BF Governance Reform List <govreform@cabforum.org>, Dimitris Zacharopoulos <jimmy@it.auth.gr><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [cabf_governance] Who Must Sign the IPR?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks Jos. My understanding was that Dean had taken care of that, but I probably misunderstood :) <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regarding the three years - would that also change if the IPR policy was revised in such a way as members needed to execute new agreements? Seems like the rationale for (3) would apply then as well.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 3:40 PM, Jos Purvis (jopurvis) <<a href="mailto:jopurvis@cisco.com" target="_blank">jopurvis@cisco.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>[Bother—I notice Ryan slipped off the address list here. I’ve re-added him here—perhaps he’d be OK joining the list until we sort this?]</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Hmm. Perhaps something like:</span><o:p></o:p></p><ol start=1 type=1><li class=m-806985736043024009msolistparagraph style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>An existing member or Interested Party may raise a request to have an organization become an Associate Member. The request must include some indication of the mutual benefit or purpose for tighter collaboration between the CABF and the applicant organization that would be furthered by Associate Membership over simply Interested Party representation. The request is then reviewed on the next CABF meeting: if there are no objections, the Associate Member candidate is invited to apply.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=m-806985736043024009msolistparagraph style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>An Associate Member applicant must present an application containing the following items:</span> <o:p></o:p></li></ol><ol start=2 type=1><ol start=1 type=a><li class=m-806985736043024009msolistparagraph style='mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The statement indicating the mutual benefit or purpose for tight collaboration between the two organizations;</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=m-806985736043024009msolistparagraph style='mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>A declaration of the specific person or persons that will represent the organization at CABF meetings;</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=m-806985736043024009msolistparagraph style='mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>A copy of a signed IPR from the organization, <i>or</i> a copy of a signed IPR from each individual declared a representative for the organization.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ol></ol><ol start=3 type=1><li class=m-806985736043024009msolistparagraph style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>As an alternative to the signed IPR requirement, the chair may request of the Forum that the organization be waived from signing the IPR. Since the results of this waiver affect the rights of Forum members, the request must be in the form of a standard ballot that must pass under normal voting rules. The waiver ballot must be renewed every three years.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ol><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>I think the combination of 2b and 2c there would provide for a strict boundary over IP rights discussions: either everyone at an org has to sign the IPR, or else they have to declare specific individuals speak for them and have <i>them</i> sign the IPR. In the case that they decline to do either, they don’t need to be an Associate Member and can make do with having individuals as Interested Parties on the mailers speaking for them.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>There’s the straw-man—have at it! </span><span style='font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"'>☺</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'>-- <br>Jos Purvis (<a href="mailto:jopurvis@cisco.com" target="_blank">jopurvis@cisco.com</a>)<br>.:|:.:|:. cisco systems | Cryptographic Services<br>PGP: 0xFD802FEE07D19105 | +1 919.991.9114 (desk)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><<a href="mailto:vfournier@apple.com" target="_blank">vfournier@apple.com</a>> on behalf of Virginia Fournier <<a href="mailto:vfournier@apple.com" target="_blank">vfournier@apple.com</a>><br><b>Date: </b>Thursday, 14 June, 2018 at 15:22 <br><b>To: </b>"Jos Purvis (jopurvis)" <<a href="mailto:jopurvis@cisco.com" target="_blank">jopurvis@cisco.com</a>>, CA/BF Governance Reform List <<a href="mailto:govreform@cabforum.org" target="_blank">govreform@cabforum.org</a>><br><b>Cc: </b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos <<a href="mailto:jimmy@it.auth.gr" target="_blank">jimmy@it.auth.gr</a>><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [cabf_governance] Who Must Sign the IPR?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi Jos, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Good suggestions - thanks! Do you have any suggestions regarding what the requirements should be?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Virginia Fournier</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Senior Standards Counsel</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#717171'></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'> Apple Inc.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Apple SD Gothic Neo";color:black'>☏</span><span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>669-227-9595</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji";color:black'>✉</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Zapf Dingbats",serif;color:black'><br clear=all></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'> <a href="mailto:vmf@apple.com" target="_blank">vmf@apple.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#579DFF'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Jun 14, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Jos Purvis (jopurvis) via Govreform <<a href="mailto:govreform@cabforum.org" target="_blank">govreform@cabforum.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Looking at the Bylaws, the definition of an Associate Member in 3.1 establishes some important criteria:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=m-806985736043024009msolistparagraph style='margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Becoming an Associate Member is “by invitation only”. Note that there is no establishment of<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span><i>who</i><span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span>does the inviting, or what the process is for requesting or obtaining an invitation.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=m-806985736043024009msolistparagraph style='margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>To become an Associate Member, an organization “must sign a mutual letter of intent, understanding, or other agreement”. The contents of the letter aren’t specified here.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=m-806985736043024009msolistparagraph style='margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The Associate Member must<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span><i>also</i><span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span>sign “the Forum’s IPR Agreement, unless this latter requirement is waived in<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space><i> </i></span>writing<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space><i> </i></span><i>by the Forum based on overriding policies of the Associate Member’s own organization IPR rules</i>.” (Emphasis added)</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>It seems like in the past, the waiving of IPR requirements and the invitation of Associate Members has been done informally, on the basis of, “Well of course we’d want them to participate and of course we wouldn’t make them sign that.” Further, I’d guess the requirements for becoming an Associate Member were based on what we were already doing with groups like ETSI. That’s not an issue per se—it makes sense to create requirements that you already know you’ll pass!—but I think the loose requirements we have are no longer one-size-fits-all.<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Perhaps it would help for us to remove the informality from the Bylaws and define a specific process for inviting organizations and for determining whether an org is required to sign the IPR or not, much the way we have a specific process for applying to be a normal Member?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>-- Jos</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>-- <br>Jos Purvis (<a href="mailto:jopurvis@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>jopurvis@cisco.com</span></a>)<br>.:|:.:|:. cisco systems | Cryptographic Services<br>PGP: 0xFD802FEE07D19105 | +1 919.991.9114 (desk)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>From:<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span></span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Govreform <<a href="mailto:govreform-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank">govreform-bounces@cabforum.org</a>> on behalf of CA/BF Governance Reform List <<a href="mailto:govreform@cabforum.org" target="_blank">govreform@cabforum.org</a>><br><b>Reply-To:<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span></b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos <<a href="mailto:jimmy@it.auth.gr" target="_blank">jimmy@it.auth.gr</a>>, CA/BF Governance Reform List <<a href="mailto:govreform@cabforum.org" target="_blank">govreform@cabforum.org</a>><br><b>Date:<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span></b>Thursday, 14 June, 2018 at 14:35<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span><br><b>To:<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span></b>CA/BF Governance Reform List <<a href="mailto:govreform@cabforum.org" target="_blank">govreform@cabforum.org</a>><br><b>Subject:<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span></b>Re: [cabf_governance] Who Must Sign the IPR?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Just to clarify, ACAB-c is comprised of Accredited CABs only, not TSPs.<br><br>Dimitris.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 14/6/2018 9:19 μμ, Virginia Fournier via Govreform wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi Ryan,<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Would you please also summarize the ETSI issue you raised on the call today? I’m not sure whether you were objecting to the discussion of the issue on today’s call, the MOU previously signed with ETSI, not discussing the issue directly with ETSI, having ETSI sign the IPR agreement, or something else. Is it just what you’ve mentioned below? I’d appreciate your summary so the Governance Reform WG can determine how to address it. Thank you. <span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Virginia Fournier</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Senior Standards Counsel</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#717171'></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'> Apple Inc.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Apple SD Gothic Neo \;"'>☏</span><span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>669-227-9595</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji";color:#0433FF'>✉</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0433FF'>︎ <a href="mailto:vmf@apple.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>vmf@apple.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#579DFF'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Jun 14, 2018, at 9:11 AM, Ryan Sleevi via Govreform <<a href="mailto:govreform@cabforum.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>govreform@cabforum.org</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>(I'm not sure if I have posting rights on govreform, so this may only go to the named parties)<span class=m-806985736043024009apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks for this summary Ben. To capture the other part of the F2F discussion and this and the previous call, it sounds like there's two separate-but-highly-related challenges.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>First is confusion about who must sign the IPR, whether participating as an Interested Party, an Associate Member, or a full Forum member. Examples of this confusion have manifest in several discussions, in which some members expressed confusion as to how to best handle it, such as:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- For interested parties, whether an individual signature is sufficient or whether that individuals employer(s) must also sign<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- For associate members, the process for waiving the IPR agreement, as covered in Section 3.1 of the Bylaws<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- For associate members, how to handle various industry groups, such as:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> - CPA Canada's WebTrust TF, which is comprised of volunteers from firms such as KPMG, Deloitte, and BDO, but also has representatives from CPA Canada itself<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> - ACAB-c, which has a number of European conformance assessment bodies (auditors) and European CAs (which themselves may be members of the Forum)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> - ETSI, which is comprised of Member Organizations that may meet any of our other definitions, and which may have individuals that are employed by ETSI member organizations, but are not representing their Member Organization<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Second, there is confusion about the nature and scope of participation in CA/Browser Forum calls and F2Fs. This confusion roughly follows the examples illustrated above, but to more firmly document.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> - WebTrust is administered by CPA Canada, and thus we'd expect CPA Canada employees and consultants to be able to participate (e.g. Don Sheehy, Gord Beal). However, the Task Force is made up of volunteers from auditing firms, and whether or not the recognition of AM also extends to those members and their employees. Jeff Ward, as Chair of the TF, while employed by BDO, has been a steady participant in Forum F2F, but whether this invitation extends to the entire TF, or their member organizations, was a point of confusion.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> - ACAB-c is an organization made up of many European TSPs and CABs. Does recognition of ACAB-c as an Associate Member extend invitations to all of these organizations, and their employees, to also participate in the F2F<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> - ETSI, as a member organization, is made up of a large number of members. Does invitation only extend to those employeed directly by ETSI, or does it also include those who participate in or lead the various focus groups within ETSI?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Note that there was a separate discussion on that second point related to Members (such as whether any employee of an organization can be in charge of voting or participate in Forum F2F, or whether there should be a notion of designated representatives), but that's not nearly as urgent or pressing as these above matters are.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>My hope is that through discussion in the Governance Reform WG and telecons, there can be a mutually agreed upon and documented understanding as to:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- A common understanding of the 'complex' cases (the above may be woefully insufficient)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- Who signs the IPR Agreements for these complex cases<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- What concerns, if any, exist with those guidelines by the member organizations (e.g. concerns of Proviti / US Government, or of ETSI and its members)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- Agreement on the process and procedures for any exceptions that might be granted under the Bylaws Section 3.1, such as:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> - The chair decides<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> - Assent on a meeting (F2F or telecon), the same as done for members that meet the requirements<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> - Full Forum votes<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hopefully that accurately and appropriately captures the discussions to date, in order to frame possible work items.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Ben Wilson <<a href="mailto:ben.wilson@digicert.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>ben.wilson@digicert.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Group,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>An issue from the London face-to-face meeting resurfaced today on the CABF call. That is, who must sign the IPR agreement? I believe that many members of the CABF would like a recommendation from this working group.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think it has been pretty clear, at least in practice, that someone with authority for an organization that is a member must sign the IPR agreement. For Interested Parties who are individuals, their signature on the IPR Agreement is pretty straightforward. But things get a little fuzzy when we deal with other scenarios. The most unclear situation is when we are dealing with associations of other organizations and individuals – viz. ETSI and WebTrust who send representatives to our meetings. Another example is where an entity appoints another entity as its agent (recognized representative) for discussions/votes. For this latter situation, a side issue is what should we require as evidence of the agency relationship.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'>Ben</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>_______________________________________________<br>Govreform mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Govreform@cabforum.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>Govreform@cabforum.org</span></a><br><a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/govreform" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/govreform</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Govreform mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Govreform@cabforum.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>Govreform@cabforum.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/govreform" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/govreform</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>_______________________________________________<br>Govreform mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Govreform@cabforum.org" target="_blank">Govreform@cabforum.org</a><br><a href="https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/govreform" target="_blank">https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/govreform</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>