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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The charter of the server cert working group would specify the voting rules. There is no intention of changing it from what it is today.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">For the Forum level, my proposal would be 1 person, 1 vote. Andrew made an interesting suggestion yesterday on the call but said he needed to flesh it out a bit.
Let’s wait to see what he comes back with before we discuss further.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dean<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Govreform [mailto:govreform-bounces@cabforum.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kirk Hall via Govreform<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 11, 2017 5:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> CA/Browser Forum Governance WG List <govreform@cabforum.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabf_governance] Ballot 206<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dean – am I correct that at the (new) SSL Server Cert WG, which will take over the work of the current Forum, the voting rules will be the same as today – 2/3
of CAs, and majority of browsers voting? If so, I think it would be appropriate to allow different voting rules at the Forum level, as the Forum then will only be working on administrative matters. What were you going to propose for the voting rules at the
(new) Forum level?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Govreform [<a href="mailto:govreform-bounces@cabforum.org">mailto:govreform-bounces@cabforum.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dean Coclin via Govreform<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 11, 2017 12:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:vfournier@apple.com">vfournier@apple.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CA/Browser Forum Governance WG List <<a href="mailto:govreform@cabforum.org">govreform@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL]Re: [cabf_governance] Ballot 206<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We discussed my concern on the voting issue on this week’s call and it’s still an open issue. We decided we needed broader input and discussion since there were
only 3 of us on the call.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Basically, the issue arises because we said that all members of working groups would become automatic members at the Forum level. Today, the Forum level consists
of CAs and Browsers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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What if, as we expand themes to area like code signing, a company like Oracle decides to join? There are neither a CA or Browser. So where would they fit into the Forum level?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In the past, there was a reason for bifurcated voting rights at the Forum level. But given the new charter and the new potential members, I don’t see how/why
that is necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hope to discuss further on the next call.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dean<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:vfournier@apple.com">vfournier@apple.com</a> [<a href="mailto:vfournier@apple.com">mailto:vfournier@apple.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 4, 2017 2:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dean Coclin <<a href="mailto:Dean_Coclin@symantec.com">Dean_Coclin@symantec.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CA/Browser Forum Governance WG List <<a href="mailto:govreform@cabforum.org">govreform@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabf_governance] Ballot 206<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Dean and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I thought we had discussed and resolved the voting issue a couple of meetings ago. What is your concern? Maybe you could provide an example demonstrating how it would play out.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Frankly, I’m not sure where we ended up. Ben was making some changes to the documents, some of which we don’t agree with, but there wasn’t a means for me to express a difference of opinion until the very end where I got maybe 15 seconds.
Then Gerv came on and completely misstated the points I had made, and then said “while those may be standard positions in the traditional standards industry, we aren’t interested in following those.” I wasn’t able to really respond or correct Gerv’s misstatements
because of the poor call quality.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What do the folks holding up the process — Google, Mozilla, etc. — really want? Maybe they’re opposed to the whole premise of the the WGs. Why don’t they participate in the meetings where we can discuss their comments instead of trying
to guess what they want?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We need someone who wants to see this ballot proceed to take ownership of it and drive it. I’m willing to help, but this isn’t important enough to us for me to be spending as much time on it as I am. I spent several hours preparing all
the documents for the F2F meeting, and then didn’t have an opportunity to participate in the discussion. Again, my question is - who really wants this?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for listening.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Virginia Fournier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Senior Standards Counsel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Myriad Set Pro",serif;color:#5E5E5E"></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> Apple Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif;color:black">☏</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> 669-227-9595<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif;color:black">✉</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">︎</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> <a href="mailto:vmf@apple.com">vmf@apple.com</a></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#4787FF"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Oct 4, 2017, at 6:56 AM, Dean Coclin <<a href="mailto:Dean_Coclin@symantec.com">Dean_Coclin@symantec.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Virginia,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I also could not hear well on the call and dropped off after about ½ hour. Thank you for championing the work of the committee and working to push it forward!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
I think we still have some work to do, unless it was all covered after I dropped off. Perhaps someone could fill me in on how far you got during the F2F?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Did we go through the rest of Gerv’s comments? How about the redlines? If we finished all that, then perhaps we are ready to move forward.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I still have an issue though with the voting at the Forum (plenary) level as I don’t understand why everyone should not have an equal vote, instead of the voting
blocks. I can understand how that makes sense for the working groups but it seems to me that doesn’t play well for the Forum level.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dean</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Govreform
[<a href="mailto:govreform-bounces@cabforum.org">mailto:govreform-bounces@cabforum.org</a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Virginia Fournier via Govreform<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, October 3, 2017 1:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>CA/Browser Forum Governance WG List <<a href="mailto:Govreform@cabforum.org">Govreform@cabforum.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[cabf_governance] Ballot 206</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">After the call yesterday (what little I could follow), I was pondering what the problem is with moving this ballot forward. I realized that there is a lot of resistance, questions, comments, concerns, issues, etc. - but no one is championing
the ballot. I have been working on it in order to help this WG, but this isn’t a critical issue for us. In general, there has been an incredible lack of interest in the documents - and the interest there has been has been picking holes in the drafts without
offering any language to solve the perceived issues.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Whoever wants the WG-based IP structure needs to get behind the ballot and drive it. Right now, I can’t see who that is, if anyone - but that person is not me. At one point we talked about the fact that Oracle wouldn’t join CAB Forum
because of the IP structure, but is that really relevant now? I think perhaps we should take a poll to see who supports the idea of WG-based IP commitments. Depending on the numbers, maybe we should drop this for now. We could still propose the other changes
clarifying definitions, etc. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I know this effort is taking much more of my time than I anticipated, and I’m sure that’s true for others as well. We shouldn’t put any more effort into this ballot and related documents until we know whether anyone really wants these
changes.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Virginia Fournier</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Senior Standards Counsel</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Myriad Set Pro",serif;color:#5E5E5E"></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> Apple Inc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif">☏</span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">669-227-9595</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif">✉</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">︎</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:vmf@apple.com"><span style="color:purple">vmf@apple.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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